Think of it this way. Pretend you go to a store and buy a camera. You
hand over the money and the cashier puts the camera in a bag and you
walk out. The camera is yours.
Now pretend that you buy the camera, but the cashier puts a receipt in the shopping bag, along with the camera.
Does the receipt make a difference as to whether you, standing on the
sidewalk, are the owner of the camera? No. It is merely a proof of
purchase, so that if needed in the future (e.g., you want to return the
camera and get a refund), you can prove to someone else that you are the
owner.
A Certificate of Loss of Nationality is like that receipt. It is an
acknowledgment from the U.S. government that you stopped being a U.S.
citizen, just like the receipt from the camera store is an
acknowledgment that you bought a camera.
Plainly put, getting the Certificate of Loss of Nationality doesn’t make
you a noncitizen. Not getting the Certificate of Loss of Nationality
does not mean you remain a citizen.
Standing in front of the Consular official and swearing the oath makes you a noncitizen.
However, what the State Department thinks (you are relinquished your
nationality) and what the IRS thinks (we’re not sure whether you are an
“expatriate” or not) is where we get confusion.
You know, Phil ol’ boy, this is the first time that I’ve ever heard
of a “un-servicing” having to be paid for. I guess it’s really true
that the United States thinks that US citizens are all slaves. I guess
we have to pay for an acknowledgement that the United States decided
that they are kind enough to let us go quietly rather than a flaming
AGM-65 Maverick up the wazoo. But in this case if you’re comparing the
loss of nationality to the purchase of a camera… you are absolutely
nuts.
In the first case, all I’m left with is a receipt in my hand and no
product other than a kick in the ass and a “see you later, traitor”.
Not much for customer service, are they?
In your comparison: let’s see if I go to The Camera Store in Calgary, AB for example and say to Chris or Evelyn, “Hey, I wanna buy a Nikon D5
(y’know. The latest and greatest), I have product in my hand, a
brand-new Nikon D5 which I can take to shoot landscapes, hockey
(Canada’s greatest sport) and all that. And on top of that, I get a
cheery smile from Chris and Evelyn and a “thank you for your business.”
I think I prefer that customer service over the US Department of
Immigration which hasn’t done shit for me except take my wife’s
hard-earned money.
With the CLN, that’s all I get…and nothing else. If I was getting
some benefits, Medicare, US infrastructure and education for all that
tax-money that we are supposed to pay out to the United States, I’d be
more apt to agree with you that the CLN was actually a receipt for
“services rendered”. But my wife got her post-secondary education in
Canada – Canadian taxpayers helped pay for her education.
But we have to pay the United States for what? Wastrels who spend
their time getting knocked up and then exclaiming that “Someone done
need to pay for my kids.”? And entitled scumbags that want free money
for doing nothing?
You know what; I’d rather not pay them a dime if supporting those in
the States who want to do nothing is what my wife’s expat taxes have to
do. So fuck your CLN and fuck your people who want others to pay for
them.
And fuck your comparison of obtaining a CLN/receipt to a legal
transaction of services/product rendered for cash paid. Because a CLN
is nothing but highway robbery; essentially a comparison should be made
for an acknowledgement of slave-ownership and the $2350 is the
emancipation fee.
But unlike most of my “born-in-Canada” friends like me…who would have
no connection to this sort of problem unless they married an American
(I did and thus was hooked into the FATCA mess – I’m trying to extricate
my spouse who still unlike me has no idea of just how vitriolic the
land of her birth can be)… who continue unawares of the injustices of
the donkey of a nation south of the border against those who would seek
to leave.
I have lost absolute faith in the humanity of those of my countrymen
who just say “shut up and pay the taxes”…or “lose your citizenship”.
This coming from Canadians who don’t seem to get the problem that
presents itself of my wife having to pay for taxes for services that she
doesn’t receive and that would, in an instant of Canada revoking
services, revolt on paying taxes – what hypocrisy!
On top of that she is expected by both Canadian government to pay
taxes to a country (in whom she is a landed immigrant/permanent
resident) who treats her like she doesn’t matter, that the Charter of
Rights and Freedoms isn’t worth the paper that it is written on. Well,
we use services here and our children go to school here in Canada so pay
we will.
I WILL NOT pay a country whose services my wife does not
receive. I will not pay for someone else to receive those benefits that
my wife is supposedly “on the hook” for. In otherwords, the United
States who has sent a bill to every single expatriate living outside of
the United States.
The country that she lives in is Canada and she will only pay for the
services that she receives from Canada where she works in. She will
not pay the United States to allow someone ELSE to NOT work and collect
welfare. She does not drive on US roads, She does not use the United
States education system. She has paid into Canadian taxes and has made
use of the Canadian education system of post-secondary education. So I
won’t let her pay a single penny into the United States tax system and
they can FUCKING WELL GO TO HELL!
Yeah, I should really save my energy, but nothing pisses me off more
than the United States 99% leeching off of countless expat families who
are making middle-class wages to minimum wage. What pisses me off even
more is that those 99% think that they’re ENTITLED to those families’
money in return for nothing from the United States Government.
My question to them is: WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!!!
Your CLN Is Your Proof of Purchase
Think of it this way. Pretend you go to a store and buy a camera. You hand over the money and the cashier puts the camera in a bag and you walk out. The camera is yours.
Now pretend that you buy the camera, but the cashier puts a receipt in the shopping bag, along with the camera.
Does the receipt make a difference as to whether you, standing on the sidewalk, are the owner of the camera? No. It is merely a proof of purchase, so that if needed in the future (e.g., you want to return the camera and get a refund), you can prove to someone else that you are the owner.
A Certificate of Loss of Nationality is like that receipt. It is an acknowledgment from the U.S. government that you stopped being a U.S. citizen, just like the receipt from the camera store is an acknowledgment that you bought a camera.
Plainly put, getting the Certificate of Loss of Nationality doesn’t make you a noncitizen. Not getting the Certificate of Loss of Nationality does not mean you remain a citizen.
Standing in front of the Consular official and swearing the oath makes you a noncitizen.
However, what the State Department thinks (you are relinquished your nationality) and what the IRS thinks (we’re not sure whether you are an “expatriate” or not) is where we get confusion.
You know, Phil ol’ boy, this is the first time that I’ve ever heard of a “un-servicing” having to be paid for. I guess it’s really true that the United States thinks that US citizens are all slaves. I guess we have to pay for an acknowledgement that the United States decided that they are kind enough to let us go quietly rather than a flaming AGM-65 Maverick up the wazoo. But in this case if you’re comparing the loss of nationality to the purchase of a camera… you are absolutely nuts.
In the first case, all I’m left with is a receipt in my hand and no product other than a kick in the ass and a “see you later, traitor”. Not much for customer service, are they?
In your comparison: let’s see if I go to The Camera Store in Calgary, AB for example and say to Chris or Evelyn, “Hey, I wanna buy a Nikon D5 (y’know. The latest and greatest), I have product in my hand, a brand-new Nikon D5 which I can take to shoot landscapes, hockey (Canada’s greatest sport) and all that. And on top of that, I get a cheery smile from Chris and Evelyn and a “thank you for your business.” I think I prefer that customer service over the US Department of Immigration which hasn’t done shit for me except take my wife’s hard-earned money.
With the CLN, that’s all I get…and nothing else. If I was getting some benefits, Medicare, US infrastructure and education for all that tax-money that we are supposed to pay out to the United States, I’d be more apt to agree with you that the CLN was actually a receipt for “services rendered”. But my wife got her post-secondary education in Canada – Canadian taxpayers helped pay for her education.
But we have to pay the United States for what? Wastrels who spend their time getting knocked up and then exclaiming that “Someone done need to pay for my kids.”? And entitled scumbags that want free money for doing nothing?
You know what; I’d rather not pay them a dime if supporting those in the States who want to do nothing is what my wife’s expat taxes have to do. So fuck your CLN and fuck your people who want others to pay for them.
And fuck your comparison of obtaining a CLN/receipt to a legal transaction of services/product rendered for cash paid. Because a CLN is nothing but highway robbery; essentially a comparison should be made for an acknowledgement of slave-ownership and the $2350 is the emancipation fee.
But unlike most of my “born-in-Canada” friends like me…who would have no connection to this sort of problem unless they married an American (I did and thus was hooked into the FATCA mess – I’m trying to extricate my spouse who still unlike me has no idea of just how vitriolic the land of her birth can be)… who continue unawares of the injustices of the donkey of a nation south of the border against those who would seek to leave.
I have lost absolute faith in the humanity of those of my countrymen who just say “shut up and pay the taxes”…or “lose your citizenship”. This coming from Canadians who don’t seem to get the problem that presents itself of my wife having to pay for taxes for services that she doesn’t receive and that would, in an instant of Canada revoking services, revolt on paying taxes – what hypocrisy!
On top of that she is expected by both Canadian government to pay taxes to a country (in whom she is a landed immigrant/permanent resident) who treats her like she doesn’t matter, that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms isn’t worth the paper that it is written on. Well, we use services here and our children go to school here in Canada so pay we will.
I WILL NOT pay a country whose services my wife does not receive. I will not pay for someone else to receive those benefits that my wife is supposedly “on the hook” for. In otherwords, the United States who has sent a bill to every single expatriate living outside of the United States.
The country that she lives in is Canada and she will only pay for the services that she receives from Canada where she works in. She will not pay the United States to allow someone ELSE to NOT work and collect welfare. She does not drive on US roads, She does not use the United States education system. She has paid into Canadian taxes and has made use of the Canadian education system of post-secondary education. So I won’t let her pay a single penny into the United States tax system and they can FUCKING WELL GO TO HELL!
Yeah, I should really save my energy, but nothing pisses me off more than the United States 99% leeching off of countless expat families who are making middle-class wages to minimum wage. What pisses me off even more is that those 99% think that they’re ENTITLED to those families’ money in return for nothing from the United States Government.
My question to them is: WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!!!